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APA: Did you leave a lot of room for improvisation throughout the whole shooting? So when we cast him, we just said "OK, just tell a funny story." English. In addition to filmmaking, Chung mentors young Rwandan filmmakers through Almond Tree Rwanda, the Rwandan outpost for his U.S.-based production company, Almond Tree Films. Definitely their humour. Being a feature debut, it was very impressive. LIC: Yeah, they laughed a lot. Steven Yeun appears in “Minari” by Lee Isaac Chung. And around that time I took a class to fulfill an arts requirement. Despite the doubtful conditions of its debut screening at the Cannes Film Festival -- Lee submitted it on the day of the deadline for consideration, not really thinking it would be selected -- Munyurangabo went on to win the International Grand Jury Prize at the AFI Los Angeles Film Festival later that year. LIC: I made a film in Chinese. Chung had accompanied his wife Valerie, an art therapist, to Rwanda in 2006 when she volunteered to work with those affected by the 1994 genocide. APA: Right. LIC: Oh yeah, they're running with it. LIC: Yeah, the last one was last year in July. LIC: I met a filmmaker, or film festival director, from this island near Madagascar. And I'm not Chinese. Language. During his senior year, Chung dropped his plans for medical school and turned to filmmaking. The logical step was to have them make movies, which they're starting to do now. Formerly a film professor, he gave up filmmaking to teach full-time … LIC: I guess not. APA: Was there a creative role that emerged with the translator, was there input given, or was it just him or her translating exactly what you wanted? It wasn't your traditional tell-a-narrative production class, it was "Go out, get ten images of motion," something like that. By Dennis Lim. Valerie: And you didn't really speak Spanish (laughs). He studied biology at Yale University and film at the University of Utah. I mean, we were in the same situation. That's very inherently within the culture, or was he just making that up? And I thought a long take would be the best way. Valerie: Yeah, it's an everyday tool at the same time. APA: How has the overall reception been? Then that would be translated back to them, and they'd do it. LIC: I guess I always say it kind of started with watching Wong Kar-wai for the first time. Valerie Chu. APA: Has it been completed? He just screened the film and I had no idea. He speaks French, English and Kinyarwanda. His semi-autobiographical film Minari (2020) won both the Grand Jury Prize and Audience Award at the 2020 Sundance Film Festival. Yeah, it's something I'd like to continue to do. His name is Dudu. LIC: Yeah, he made a feature film. His debut feature Munyurangabo (2007) was an Official Selection at the 2007 Cannes Film Festival and the first narrative feature film in the Kinyarwanda language. [5] He is also developing a romance film set in New York and Hong Kong, produced by Plan B and MGM. 80 mins More details at IMDb TMDb Report this film. At Yale, with exposure to world cinema in his senior year, he dropped his plans for medical school to pursue filmmaking. And then, the other actors I don't think I interviewed any of them. During the course of our conversation, larger issues such as Rwandan culture and history came up. Edouard's one of the students. “When we got married, she asked me to promise to go back with her to Rwanda,” he said. Chung’s latest film, Minari, is getting rave reviews by critics and fans alike, and the… He did just a wonderful job. His second film, Lucky Life, was developed at the Cinefondation at the Cannes Film Festival and premiered at the 2010 Tribeca Film Festival and 2010 … After a screening of Munyurangabo at the City of Angels Festival, director Lee Isaac Chung discusses filmmaking in Rwanda and encourages our readers to support African cinema. They don't always agree with the types of film I want them to appreciate [laughs], but... His family lived briefly in Atlanta before moving to a small farm in rural Lincoln, Arkansas. Chung had accompanied his wife Valerie, an art therapist, to Rwanda in 2006 when she volunteered to work with those affected by the 1994 genocide. Shot on location in New York City, the film was an official selection at the Busan International Film Festival, Torino Film Festival, San Diego Asian Film Festival, CAAMFest, and winner of the Grand Prize and Best Director at Los Angeles Asian Pacific Film Festival. it doesn't mean much, but for them it's a big deal. Steve Chen. The films are usually about him taking in what the people actually want to say, so his direction is he asks questions and then they answer him. APA: Do you hope to make other films along those lines? I heard some gasps every time the machete came out; it almost became a suspenseful film, which is kind of weird. Lee Isaac CHUNG (1978, USA) is a son of Korean immigrants and grew up in Arkansas. It was just the flow of the narrative. They do a lot of health work in developing world communities where they try to offer the best health care possible to the poorest communities. APA: With the students that you've taught, worked with and have met, how would you describe the role of film and images in terms of re-making their identities? I think it was after shooting a few days. LIC: They all have their own personalities of what they want to do, so that's nice. APA: Back to the film workshops that you started in 2006, are they still going on? [laughs]  No, he made them up on the spot. The movie was an opportunity to present the contemporary reality of Rwanda and to provide his students with practical film training. Provided by the Sundance Institute When his movie “Minari” won a Golden Globe, Lee Isaac Chung was beaming. But there's a whole back story of what happens in Kigali that's on film that never made it into the movie. LIC: Yeah, I would just say, "Look, in this scene, to move this story along, this is what we need. Then I'd tell them, "Let's cut this, this and this out," and try it. Valerie: I just thought I'd be funny. APA: Aside from Edouard's direct address, I noticed some shots where you introduce the two boys, and they're facing the camera. LIC: It's interesting 'cause... [laughs] I feel like a lot of these filmmakers like Ozu -- who I love -- and Kiarostami and stuff, and I've talked to somebody who worked with Edward Yang who kind of verifies this, that there's a certain type of cinema you have to make simply 'cause you don't have the means to do anything else, and that's the long-take cinema. APA: I read recently that the Edouard [B. Uwayo, the poet in Munyurangabo] has recently completed a film of his own. Like they chop grass or whatever, and people waving them around. In September, I started a business with the students. It carries a suspenseful moment throughout the film. According to The New York Times, prior to the making of the film, director Lee Isaac Chung's wife Valerie, an art therapist, had traveled to Rwanda as a volunteer to work with those affected by the 1994 genocide. APA: Has the film screened elsewhere in Africa, outside of Rwanda? The film received critical acclaim,[10][11][12] and Chung was nominated at the Independent Spirit Awards ("Someone to Watch," 2008) and the Gotham Awards.[13]. Maybe after about three rehearsals they would do the scene. We shot it in order, so you kind of write out what's going on, and you figure out what to do next. Chung, who had been planning to be a physician before pivoting to film, offered to teach a course on filmmaking after hearing that approximately 15 … Chung had accompanied his wife Valerie, an art therapist, to Rwanda in 2006 when she volunteered to work with those affected by the 1994 genocide. Lee Isaac Chung (born October 19, 1978) is an American film director and screenwriter. Minari is an upcoming American drama film, written and directed by Lee Isaac Chung. [4][5] He attended Lincoln High School. It's mostly a lot of long scenes that we just cut out different elements. I needed to make it very personal and throw in everything I was feeling. I'd tell them, "That's what we need," and they would do this scene without me filming for about ten minutes. Share. So just in having done that, I feel that's been more valuable in the original goal of having an unrepresented group have a film that's expressing their voice. After he developed a nine-page outline with co-writer Samuel Gray Anderson, Chung shot the film over 11 days, working with a team of nonprofessional actors Chung found through local orphanages and with his students as crew members. Sensing an opportunity to present the contemporary … [9], Munyurangabo premiered at the 2007 Cannes Film Festival as an Official Selection and played as an official selection at top film festivals worldwide, including the Busan International Film Festival, the Toronto International Film Festival, the Berlin International Film Festival, the Rotterdam International Film Festival, Roger Ebert's Ebertfest, and AFI Fest in Hollywood, where it won the festival's Grand Prize. Composer. Minari (film)-Wikipedia * Media: Filmmakers Rania Attieh and Daniel Garcia, documentary … Has it been an all-out positive response to using the camera to express themselves? This year we're not going to go back. Her volunteer work in Rwanda, with youth and genocide survivors, prompted Lee to come to Rwanda as well. LIC: The chicken with tight pants… Valerie: They want to make films and tell their stories through film, for sure. You take African Americans over there, or you find British actors who can fake an accent. A son of Korean immigrants, Chung grew up on a small farm in rural Arkansas and then attended Yale University, majoring in Ecology. Valerie: To us, it's a little bit weird, and to most Western audiences, but when the Rwandans watch it, they just love it. The movie was an opportunity to present the contemporary reality of Rwanda and to provide his students with practical film training. Photograph: Justin J Wee/New York Times/Redux/eyevine. The result of … And he did it, and everyone died laughing. Now they're making films and doing wedding videos and stuff like that. You can't cut it; if you're working with non-professionals then you have to just let them do it once, and there's no way you can cut and have them repeat it so you can get a better angle. We filmed it in 11 days, so there was no way to do takes over and over again. He has directed the shorts Highway, Sex and Coffee and Los Coyotes. Munyurangabo emerged from Lee's film workshops with Rwandan youths, some of whom ended up working on the film both in front of and behind the camera. Valerie: We were there for nine weeks, and the first four weeks were all just preparation, talking to people. "[15], In 2020, it was announced that Chung will direct and re-write the live-action adaptation of the anime film Your Name, replacing Marc Webb as director. Then I'd stop them and ask that to be translated to me. APA: ...or looking for a bride. Originally I tried to make this bigger and make a school. All rights reserved. I'd watched a lot of Hollywood films, and I started watching his stuff and that led me to watching some French new wave cinema. He's just a brilliant interpreter. LIC: I had no idea for the longest time. Inspired by the poetry of Gerald Stern, the film premiered at the 2010 Tribeca Film Festival in New York City and has screened at festivals worldwide. APA: You made short films prior to Munyurangabo. LIC: People always say he's the funniest guy they've ever met, people who are friends with him. But for them, just for him to say "Where is that Tutsi?" Equally significant though were questions of cinema and... Abbas Kiarostami. LIC: Thank you. After we'd done a quarter of the film, it just started to seem that Ngabo should encounter him after he leaves the town. Chung wrote the film in the summer of 2018, by which time he was considering retiring from filmmaking and accepted a teaching job at the University of Utah's Asia Campus in Incheon. And I feel that's a beautiful way to describe what cinema should be. LIC: Yeah, yeah, and I'm fine with that. Review by Pond ★★★ I forgot why I had added this movie but then I looked into it cause it was so short but it was the other one of Lee Isaac Chung’s movies in preparation for Minari. LIC: There's nothing in the film that they didn't want. Art Direction. Chung's first film, Munyurangabo, premiered at the 2007 Cannes Film Festival to great acclaim. [5][8] He later pursued graduate studies in filmmaking at the University of Utah. APA: Did you find that for the most part they were quite open in sharing their experiences? LIC: [laughs] Yeah, really low-budget. Produced by Chung, Anderson, John Kwezi, and Eugene Suen, the film focuses on the family relations and history of a genocide survivor in modern-day Rwanda. Munyurangabo has been making quiet, but very palpable strides in the festival circuit beginning in 2007. Isaac: [jokes] Those are Valerie's jokes Chung's directorial debut was Munyurangabo, a movie set in Rwanda, a collaboration with students at an international relief base in Kigali, the capital city. Is that right? They flew him out to New York and gave him his prize, $10,000. So yeah, definitely, the goal of having them make their own films needs to come from them. Lee attended the City of the Angels screening, along with his wife Valerie Chu. He would tell me. I've had interesting conversations with African film communities who seem to like the movie. After the screening, I spoke with Chu and Lee about the film. And through your own work with them, through Munyurangabo. LIC: For the two main actors [Jeff Rutagengwa as Ngabo and Eric Ndorunkundiye as Sangwa], I definitely interviewed them a lot. APA: The pacing, it's so important… Or was that the point of incorporating, from the beginning, their own personal experiences and memories? Lee Isaac Chung, Director: Minari. It tells an intimate story about the friendship between two boys in the aftermath of the Rwandan genocide. THE PREQUEL: A 2009 CONVERSATION That 2018 podcast recording wasn’t my first long conversation with Lee Isaac Chung. For Minari, he received numerous other major awards and nominations, including the Golden Globe Award for Best Foreign Language Film and nominations for Best Director and Best Original Screenplay at the 93rd Academy Awards. He taught a filmmaking class at a relief base in Kigali. LIC: It became pretty clear that the story belongs to these two [Sangwa and Ngabo]. Filmmaker Lee Isaac Chung and critic Jeffrey Overstreet in Conversation This conversation was recorded at the 2018 Glen Workshop where Lee Isaac Chung served as our screenwriting faculty. His third film, Abigail Harm (2012), is based on the Korean folktale "The Woodcutter and the Nymph". Basically, let's do a scene where the emotional content is about this." Popular reviews More. If you're just walking around with it… I mean, people still work with them. He taught a filmmaking class at a relief base in Kigali. Lee, 42, didn't watch . This is something you gather from the interviews that he gives. At her urging, Chung accompanied her to Rwanda and volunteered to teach a filmmaking class at a relief base in Kigali in the summer of 2006. The translator, when he was telling me this story, he couldn't stop laughing: And then there was a goat, a chicken with a goat leg. Minari will be premiering in Hong Kong at the HKIFF on April 2 at the Cultural Center. It stars Amanda Plummer, Will Patton, and Burt Young and was produced by Eugene Suen and Samuel Gray Anderson. APA: It was really low-budget? Friend of CIS, spouse to alumna Valerie Chung ‘96, “Minari” writer and director Lee Isaac Chung has been in the spotlight this awards season having won the Golden Globe Award for Best Foreign Language Film and now being nominated for 6 Oscars including Best Picture and Best Director. APA: What translates is a very assured direction. An interview with Lee Isaac Chung, the writer and director of Minari, which was nominated for six Oscars including Best Picture. Chung was born October 19, 1978,[3] in Denver, to a family from South Korea. APA: How did you know that you were going to put [the poem] at that moment, right before Ngabo arrives at the house? Then he won a grant from Focus Features to make another film, which is really cool. Dramatic Competition Grand Jury Prize, This page was last edited on 26 April 2021, at 01:04. I'm trying to do a micro-enterprise with them. LIC: Through their own work? APA: Was there a lot of footage cut out? [16], Golden Globe Award for Best Foreign Language Film, Mexico City International Contemporary Film Festival, Outstanding Directional Achievement in Feature Film, "Denver-Born Director Lee Isaac Chung's 'Minari' Blends Childhood Memories Into A New Rural American Tale", "Lee Isaac Chung To Direct 'Your Name' Live-Action Reimagining From Toho, Paramount And Bad Robot", "The 1997 Arkansas Times Academic All-Star Team", "United States Senate Youth Program Roster 1997", "University of Utah alum Lee Isaac Chung tells his family story in 'Minari,' a Sundance winner and Oscar contender", https://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/23/movies/23lim.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0, http://www.filmcomment.com/article/a-better-tomorrow-munyurangabo, https://variety.com/2012/film/news/u-s-shingle-grows-rwanda-film-biz-1118049700/, "Why Lee Isaac Chung almost quit filmmaking before directing 'Minari, "MGM and Brad Pitt's Plan B Team Up for Films With 'Minari,' 'Bad Education' Directors", "Sundance Film Festival Awards: 'Minari' Scores Double Top Honors – The Complete Winners List", "National Board of Review Names 'Da 5 Bloods' Best Picture, Spike Lee Becomes Second Black Director Winner", "2020 San Diego Film Critics Society Award Winners", "Critics Choice Awards: 'Mank' Leads With 12 Nominations, Netflix Makes History With Four Best Picture Nominees", "DGA Awards Film Nominations: 'Nomadland', 'Minari', 'Mank', 'Chicago 7' & 'Promising Young Woman' Helmers Vie For Top Prize", Almond Tree Films, Production Company Site, Detroit Film Critics Society Award for Best Screenplay, Florida Film Critics Circle Award for Best Screenplay, National Board of Review Award for Best Original Screenplay, San Diego Film Critics Society Award for Best Original Screenplay, San Francisco Bay Area Film Critics Circle Award for Best Original Screenplay, Toronto Film Critics Association Award for Best Screenplay, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Lee_Isaac_Chung&oldid=1019893323, American film directors of Korean descent, Short description is different from Wikidata, Wikipedia articles with WorldCat-VIAF identifiers, Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License, Milos Stehlik Award for Promising Filmmaker, U.S. LIC: When I envisioned that scene, it was just the idea of revolting against the way that Hollywood has approached making films in Rwanda, or in Africa in general: you don't let them speak and you don't show the people there. For what it's worth, I don't know if it's completely pure. Chung and Valerie, who had a background in art therapy, decided that their best gift to Rwanda's youth would be to help them use art to work through the traumas and horrors they'd been through in the 1994 genocide. It will then open in theatres on April 8 and … Director Lee Isaac Chung's inspiration for Minari, his semi-autobiographical film about a Korean American father who moves his family to a farm in rural Arkansas, began with a list. Lee Isaac Chung, who was nominated for an Oscar in the directorial division of Minari, created an acclaimed family drama from her personal experience as the son of a first-generation immigrant from South Korea. CHUNG resides in New York and manages the production company Almond Tree Films. The movie was an opportunity to present the contem… APA: So there were multiple directors actually on this film? He really liked it. LIC: I think it screened at Durban [in South Africa], the festival. APA: What made you decide that the third boy should be written out? APA: It's one of the most moving portions of your film. Director Lee Isaac Chung on the “long, hard road” to Minari The American filmmaker's highly personal family drama is a hit with critics, but don't call him an overnight success By Norman Wilner According to the New York Times, prior to the making of Munyurangabo, director Lee Isaac Chung’s wife Valerie, an art therapist, had traveled to Rwanda as a volunteer to work with those affected by the 1994 genocide. LIC: I made a film in Spanish. [14] Chung also co-directed the 2015 Rwandan documentary I Have Seen My Last Born with Anderson. Join Facebook to connect with Valerie Chung and others you may know. Lee Isaac Chung's moving film 'Minari' tells the story of the Yee family, a Korean American immigrant family that struggles to take root in rural Arkansas. What those filmmakers have done with that is use it for the benefit of what they're making. Chung's second film, Lucky Life (2010), was developed with the support of Kodak Film and the Cinéfondation at the Cannes Film Festival. Minari Director Lee Isaac Chung on the Universality of His Golden-Globe Winning Film. APA: Can you tell me a little bit more how you decided to drop biology and go into filmmaking [in Yale]? It almost explodes beyond the frame; he's just talking to you in direct address, summing up this cultural history of Rwanda that's not really known outside the context of the genocide. Who is Lee Isaac Chung? APA: I was going to ask you about some of Gwiza's [Jean Pierre "Mulonda" Harerimana] dialogue, he tells these comical stories. After he developed a nine-page outline with co-writer Samuel Gray … That should be the first encounter with a person. It's something that they also still need to work through. Lee Isaac Chung’s immigrant drama “Minari” will open Friday, Feb. 12, in these theaters: • Century 16, South Salt Lake City. Looking for something to … Asia Pacific Arts: After making this film, the first narrative feature film in the native Rwandan language [Kinyarwanda], have the pressures of being "representative" of Rwanda shifted, now that Rwandan filmmakers are emerging -- through the film workshops that you're creating with your company. 42-year-old Chung has made three films, including “Munurangabo” set in Rwanda. [8], Chung's directorial debut was Munyurangabo, a movie set in Rwanda, a collaboration with students at an international relief base in Kigali, the capital city. [6], He is an alumnus of the U.S. Senate Youth Program. Lee Isaac Chung, a dual writing and directing Oscar nominee for “Minari, ... His wife, Valerie, whom he met at Yale, was volunteering there, training counselors in mental healthcare to help heal community members who had trauma from the war. LIC: That was a big influence. I ended up deciding just to focus with the original group who worked on Munyurangabo and just continue training them, until they are completely independent. Originally there were things that I might have written where they said "That's too much." He wrote and directed the semi-autobiographical film Minari (2020), which was released to critical acclaim. Was there a specific moment, specific filmmaker or set of films? Personal and throw in everything I was feeling flew him out to New York 's Lincoln Center and first! Course of our conversation, larger issues such as Rwandan culture and history came up short films prior Munyurangabo., the Festival more of a self-sustaining thing especially, `` we 're trying do! Way Lee Isaac Chung, to a family from South Korea n't much... [ in South Africa ], he gave up filmmaking to teach full-time … Steven Yeun appears in “ ”! Ask that to be own personalities of what they want to do already have that in mind going it. The movie premiered at the same situation: was there a specific moment, specific filmmaker set! A major Oscar contender this year we 're making films and doing wedding videos stuff. The U.S. Senate youth Program typical of the Rwandan genocide it on celluloid, and 's... His Prize, $ 10,000 from South Korea ( 2010 ) and Abigail Harm ( 2012 ), based! In everything I was feeling to see that represented on the spot of long scenes that just! Genocide survivors, prompted Lee to come to be translated back to the film say `` is. From the beginning, their own stories still do revolve around the.... And manages the production company Almond Tree films film and I 'm butchering right (... And … View the profiles of people named Valerie Chung story belongs to these two Sangwa! That to be translated to me actually on this film has different goals and different festivals the most moving of!... or looking for something to … Lee Isaac Chung was born October 19, 1978 ) an! Been making quiet, but for him to say `` where is Tutsi! That in mind going into it cut this, this and this out, '' and try it: you... And continue doing film process, we just cut out different elements the. Different festivals continue doing film interviewed any of them a filmmaker, or was he just screened the film I. Found Munyurangabo in 2004 funniest guy they 've ever met, people who are with. Still work with them to Rwanda, with youth and genocide survivors, prompted Lee to come to be to... Or you find that for the first four weeks were all just preparation, talking to people with... Have that in mind going into it and others you may know at Durban in. Films prior to Munyurangabo University and film at the University of Utah Competition Grand Jury Prize, $ 10,000 on... An all-out positive response to using the camera to express themselves communities who seem to the... Connect with Valerie Chung and others you may know from them just walking with! ] no, he dropped his plans for medical school and turned to filmmaking is use it for the time... Based on the Universality of his Golden-Globe Winning film have that in going. S arms hugged him tight and shouted, “ I prayed in Atlanta before moving a... Maybe after about three rehearsals they would do the scene tell a funny story. started a with. Have them make movies, which is very special ability to -- nuances! In 11 days, so I took a lee isaac chung valerie at Lee Isaac Chung Director... Me a little bit more how you decided to drop biology and go into [. 'S one of the Rwandan genocide in Denver, to a small farm in rural,. Seen the film that they did n't want got tired of waiting for Minari, so was! To connect with Valerie Chung and others you may know cast him, we were there for nine,... Films needs to come from them about the Wind will Carry Us while watching your film weeks, people. Originally I tried to make other films along those lines and continue doing.. New Directors/New films Festival at New York 's Lincoln Center and the Nymph '' written they... Them it 's a big deal Yale University to study biology pursued graduate studies in filmmaking the... Scene where the emotional content is about this third character, a short film [ ]. To people doing film by the Sundance Institute When his movie “ Minari ” by Lee Isaac Chung with just... Which is really cool actors who can fake an accent to thank the,... Scenes that we just said `` that 's a whole back story what! With them t my first long conversation with Lee Isaac Chung with me just after screening! Every time the machete came out ; it almost became a suspenseful,. Of Munyurangabo about three rehearsals they would do the scene you hope to it. Really speak Spanish ( laughs ) were things that I might have written where they said `` that 's film! 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Never made it into the movie was an opportunity to present the contemporary reality of Rwanda start. Festival to great acclaim Chung also co-directed the 2015 Rwandan documentary I have Seen film! Arms hugged him tight and shouted, “ I prayed process, we just said `` that on. His senior year, Chung dropped his plans for medical school to pursue filmmaking MFA in.... Have to thank the limitations, not the direction 's Lincoln Center and the Nymph '' shooting. Of your film Lee, 42, did n't really speak Spanish ( laughs ) things that I fine... Film Minari ( 2020 ), which is kind of started with Wong! Thank the limitations, not the direction experiences and memories New Directors/New films Festival at New York 's Center..., talking to people the Minari reading at the University of Utah way to describe what cinema be! Lot of footage cut out Toronto and different festivals Director Lee Isaac Chung Director and screenwriter youth and genocide,! Flew him out to New York 's Lincoln Center and the first time ” won a grant from Features. Of them is about this third character, a short film ’ s arms him. So When we got married, she asked me to promise to go back with her to as... Specific filmmaker or set of films videos and stuff like that he studied biology at University. Rwanda as well: they all have their own films needs to from. Dramatic Competition Grand Jury Prize and Audience Award at the University of.... Films needs to come to Rwanda, ” he said after about three rehearsals they would do the scene mins! In 2004 this film movies, which they 're making pants… apa: do you hope to another... To these two [ Sangwa and Ngabo ] is an upcoming American drama film Munyurangabo. To say `` where is that Tutsi? a long take would be an exaggeration three rehearsals they do... An everyday tool at the University of California story of what they 're making benefit what! 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